This article starts by saying that "a survey last week suggested that while Kenyans have an appetite for sex (what the heck does this mean anyway?), they are not good or frequent lovers" but then shifts gear and blames the women for it all.
Yes, the men sleep around, but it's because their bad-in-bed-wives lowered their self esteem: "Marriage counsellors say many women in Kenya do not know what to expect in a sexual relationship and this has caused low esteem among men who opt to have affairs."
Oh, I see. Women are bad in bed; they don't know what to expect, which lowers the self-esteem of men, who,as a result, sleep around with women (who are still bad in bed?)
The solution?
Teach the women striptese, belly, and pole dance. Apparently, it works. One therapist said: ""When they are through with my sessions, they seem to have a new found respect for me." I bet.
So we hear about how the men feel, how the therapist feels, but nothing about how the women feel! Any word on THEIR self esteem?
27 comments:
Why are you complaining? Where's the sexism here? Why are men expected to perform ALL the time while the woman lies there like a dead fish!?
Sexual relationship is a two way highway. Don't expect satisfaction from either side if you don't put your back into it
And these men are running from women (who are bad in bed) to women who are VERY experienced in bed. Just to reassure themselves _mistakenly_ that they still got it. I'm not trying to justify a foul act here. I'm just explaining how some of these people think
I'm sick of people who just want to bash men just for the sake of bashing them, every culture has it's own exclusivity and we really can't pass judgement with one moral system on another.
I think this is sexist, just because it is does not mean I am men bashing. Both men and women can have sexist ideas. Sexism is still apart of our society. Men dont have to take classes to be better in bed, nor are they blamed for failed marriges like women many times are.
I think it is sexist to look at belly dancing as a strip tease, because it is a fine art like ballet that needs athleticism and many expressive qualities.
I consider Amal's site a place where we can talk about racism and sexism in our society. If you dont think sexism exists then this is the wrong website for you.
Your understanding of another person will grow stronger if you take things slowly.
Blaming women for infidelity I see. I would like to meet that therapist so I can smack her. We're talking a society that has this double-standard that it's okay to cheat on your wife.
Lena, who do you think you are, allowing people in or out from any place? Who are you to dictate what I should think or I shouldn't think of a specific matter?
Grow up a little bit and see beyond male bigotry few a few seconds and you will see that this is not about one sex or another it's about justice
Oftentimes, in the name of justice we over do it. Yes we absolutely over exaggerate our response to a specific matter resulting in injustice on the other party
Sexism does exist, but this is not one case of real sexism, where a women is denied medical attention because she's woman, or gets less education because she's a woman or gets lower wage, or denied a Job because she's a woman. THAT is sexism, blaming certain aspects in a society on some behaviors is not.
I'm not saying the men over there are angels or anything. But there is an apparent gap between men performing and women performing.
Where have you seen women being blamed for failed marriages more than men!?! I have never seen a single society who blames women (more) than men for failed marriages!!? These lunacies are the result of a delusional mind. And I will continue to consider you like that until you prove to me with a scientific undeniable statistical PROOF that this is the case. Otherwise, your exaggeration is equivalent to lying in my view
This is interesting...
I dont think sexism comes from men. I think it comes from a class society that benifits from dividing men and women. Qwaider, you are mistaken that I believe in blaming men and it is an assumption you make. I dont beleive working class men benifit from women's oppression.
But, I do think corporations benifit by sexism because they make more profits with cheaper labor that women provide. Another form of sexism is when corporations use womens bodies to sell products, further promoting demeaning ideas that women are only good for sex or that they are less inteligent.
This has an effect on our whole society including the intsitution of marriage.
I think this should be a place where we can talk about sexism. I dont think that a hard core zionist that doesnt want to listen to the Palestinian perspective has a place in this blog either, why should it be any different from someone that doesnt want to hear the perspective of sexism by women? This what my impression of Qwaider's statement was. Prove me wrong...
I wonder what amal thinks of all this!!!!
Hi Qwaider,
"Why are you complaining? "
I'm glad you asked! Here's why I think this article is sexist:
the writer begins by talking about Kenyans' having a sexual appetite but being lousy lovers. Then it turns out he is talking really about women only. So he's not doing what you suggest that he does: see that such relations take two people (and a village, I'd ad). He presents the issue as a problem caused by women. Because women don't know what to expect, men get low self esteem and are driven to seek other women. That's blaming women, which is not fair.Even when a woman lies there like a dead fish, we should ask who killed her? and why? How can she be revived? Certainly, not by asking her to belly dance for her whale, right? And how will she be treated if she acted as if she knew what to expect, demanded it, insisted on it, went for it? Many would call her a slut. Men go to the women who are good in bed because they have split women into (virgins-mothers-wives) and (whores). But that's a bigger topic and I'm sure we will visit it some day on this blog.
To go back to the article, if women don't know what to expect in sexual relations, shouldn't the therapist be talking to them about how to be sexual beings for their own satisfaction? The therapist is not teaching them (or their men) about clitoris stimulation, oral sex, their G spot, multiple orgasms, etc. Instead, she's teaching them how to please the men. If a wife strips for her husband or partner, he may get some satisfaction. But what about her satisfaction?
see, this is not about bashing men or Kenyans. But it is about bashing patriarchy and sexist journalists who write sloppy articles.
Well Lena, I'm sorry, I stand corrected. Thank you for taking the time to explain things for me.
I do share your view that many corporates tend to merchandise and exploit women. It's not always the fault of men.
But in this matter, I wonder why Amal decided to consider this something against men.
Anyway, I hope the situation gets better for everyone's sake. I have sisters, nieces and in the future daughters. And I don't view it as acceptable to continue to treat women like this. But I don't want us to swing totally to the other side and commit injustice against men this time
Hi Lena,
I'm glad you feel this blog is a space where we can talk about sexism and racism in our society. I'm happy to see you and Qwaider debating the issue.
Hi again Qwaider,
I'm still trying to figure out why that particular post ticked you off! In what way did I bash men? I critiqued the article and its assumptions. And sometimes I'll criticize men when they behave in unjust and patriarchal ways because they often do.
Patriarchal is not that bad. What's bad is depriving people of their equal right.
In some close societies men and women lack sexual intimate education due to restrictions and their strict upraising. The men and the women are both victims of the same issues.
It's unfair that we blame only the men on these matters.
In the occasion that at least one of the partners is a little bit more experienced they can coach the other party in the matters of the heart
thanks qwaider for your response. Lets keep this dialoge up!
Qwaider said:
"Patriarchal is not that bad. What's bad is depriving people of their equal right."
Qwaider, the definition of "patriarchy" is "rule by men". Which means that men rule, which means that they have more power, which means that some groups of people have their rights and opportunities restricted. Get it? Oh, and don't even get me started on the way bellydancing is lumped with stripping and "exotic dancing" (whatever that is). I am so sick and tired too of these stupid Western women (and men) who talk about how "sexually liberating" it is to, basically, do stuff that has nothing to do with stimulating themselves, but is only centered around blaming yourself for your husband's or boyfriend's sense of male entitlement that causes him to cheat in the first place. I couldn't even read the stupid article as I would have thrown the computer across the room in an Egyptian feminist rage...and that would be bad. Phew, overwhelmed right now...
You're stating only part of Patriarchal means. With a Patriarchal society there is a greater responsibility placed on the man. Not less, he is forced to work while the woman gets to just enjoy the benefits. Yes, on the downside, his will is more asserted. Although, knowing every married person in my life wouldn't dare lift a finger without his wife's consent!
The crazy ideas about Si Essayyed, have just polluted everything for all the good men that try so hard to just live.
"With a Patriarchal society there is a greater responsibility placed on the man. Not less, he is forced to work while the woman gets to just enjoy the benefits."
Spend one day in a woman's shoes, yes, ONE DAY, and you will realize this is not the case. What makes you think that being raised to believe you are less than crap, pressured to think that your only worth is in the men you relate to, and your future babies, and being led to believe that your busting your butt cooking, cleaning, raising the kids AND now going out to the workplace is not work at all is all fun and games for women? Get a clue. Stop whining about supposed oppression of men. Ya Rabbi!
Lara, Calm down. I've said it before, and I will proudly say it again. I would trade places with Arab women in a HEARTBEAT! I wouldn't give it a second thought
Yes there are men and women who oppress other women, but there are women who are crazy enough to try to apply western ideologies to Arabic values. It just doesn't work. You're one or the other, you can't have the best of both worlds
Men are being treated unjustly, I've been hearing so much crap and just being silent about it when in all truth WOMEN have way more rights than men! Cooking and Cleaning is NOT a man's right! It's not mandated in anything and frankly a smart woman gets her way around ANYTHING and ANYONE in the Arab world
I have no idea how old you are but one thing is for sure, you know NOTHING about the law or the traditions. And believe me, it's the BEST TIME in HISTORY to be a women... So all of you feminists .. just shut up and count your blessings. Men are DYING to get half of what you have!
According to Qwader
"a smart woman gets her way around ANYTHING and ANYONE in the Arab world"
So the pregnant women and her newborn were killed in an honor killing; are you saying it happened because she was not smart enough?
Or are you saying women are so manipulative that they rule the world and make men squiver at their greatness. Not only that fifty foot women roam the world squashing men with their index finger.
What world do you live in...I think it is called fantasy or delusion, either way why do you read this blog if you have such contempt for women that want to fight oppression?
Please, Please answer.
You know you remind me more and more of a right winger. Especially a western one. I know this is a deep insult to your moral purity.
Ta
Yes a smart woman gets what ever she wants only a fool would deny that fact. I've seen enough in my time to make such a claim. I've seen women get what ever they want
And that pregnant woman that was killed is THE EXCEPTION and another fool only thinks that Arab men just go around killing pregnant women. Yeah sure, we have our machete and look for women to kill! God you're so bitter that you can't even see a good thing if it hits you straight in your face!
Yes, I AM calling you stupid because you chose to see only 1 incident, and consider it the norm for the society. Which is pathetic, I feel so sorry for people like you
The reason for my allergic response was that last time I checked I was a HUGE supporter of progressive Arab women. But at the same time I'm a supporter of social justice and equality.
I think I'm being more realistic in my statements than you are, you will give me an exception I would give you the LAW and how any advocate can take it and use it for the benefit of women! And I'm talking about countries like Jordan!
I read this blog because I want to read it, last time I checked it didn't say delusional feminists only! And who do you think you are to brand me with contempt against women? I do have contempt against stupidity, it doesn't matter if it was men or women. You're just practicing oppression against any voice who would say anything
I'm not going to repeat myself and say that I would be proud to trade places with an Arab woman, but I truly feel like that. Maybe because I'm one of the MANY Arab men who don't look down on women, but the other way around!
So give the good people a break and direct your hate where you need to direct it ... against the single INDIVIDUALS that are giving all of us a bad name
I never claimed moral purity or advocated it. All I'm asking for is social justice for all and equality ... for you, for me, for my sister and mother, but also for me, and my father. And in the future, my son and daughter ... THIS is what I'm asking for and exaggerating one side over the other is just unfair and I will always be against it
By the way, if any of you bother to look, that study states that Men's wallets is the worst when it comes to germs maybe that will remove some of the doubt since apparently men turned out to be dirtier ... so relax
yes all very rational arguements (eyes rolling). I personally dont think calling someone stupid is the best way to make your point in politics. I think it makes you look like you are trying to evade any real discussion.
Any hoo, so why do you read a femminist blog?
the "...so relax" part is not contempt I think its condesencion..
I think you have that effect on women.
You've been cornered, and have been proved beyond any shadow of a doubt how wrong your ways are. But you're just too arrogant to admit it!
Anyway, I've been a feminist all my life, I am against any sort of injustice against women. But not only against women.
Anyway, if you want one less supporter, keep this "Pushing" away attitude. I thought you wanted people to hear your side of the story! Is this the best you can come back with, and repeatedly... "boo hoo hoo, why are you here... this is our playground ... boo hoo hoo"
Well, suck it up ... and get it straight, when you grow up (IF you do) you'll know that other people who have different points of view are not necessarily your enemies! AND that you're not always right, in fact, you're most likely more wrong than right
What's apparent is that you're very better, probably because some guy dumped you for someone you think is lesser. Or because your brothers had more freedom than you. So instead of blaming the culprits, you just direct your aggressive depression outwards towards all the men who have done absolutely nothing to you and treat women like queens, if not goddesses!
I really pity you!
So you are a feminist that likes to tell other femminists to shut up and to stop complaining? I have never met a femminist like you.
Please expand...
What school of femminism has taught you the arguement that..you are bitter because some guy dumped you and that is why you hate men,ect?
I dont think I have ever heard of that before...
Just like you don't focus on the issues and talk about everything else. you ask me to leave and get upset if complain?
As for the shutup that I mentioned above it's to stop complaining about not having equal rights. I wish I had as much rights as women do!
All I see is negativity on your side, you take a single issue and generalize it bashing all men in the course. And when I object you tell me to leave ...
Weak, so weak and pathetic!
"As for the shutup that I mentioned above it's to stop complaining about not having equal rights. I wish I had as much rights as women do!"
Qwader if consider yourelf a femminist would you not want to fight for womens equality?
"if consider yourelf a femminist would you not want to fight for womens equality?"
Equality with Arab men??? No, sister, we can do better : )
Amal,
Thanks for your support and for your opinion. I know you are joking, but joking aside I think of Palestine when I think of what is at stake.
When Palestine is free, where is the justice for the poor, women, gays? When they free themselves of occupation what kind of society will they live in?
There is no other option we have to get working class Arab men on the side of fighting women's oppression. I do think it is posible...but we got to make it happen.
Hi Lena,
I am for self determination for nations and individuals. Can't ask for one and not the other. I would agree to "postponing" other stuggles only if they promise me another life. Or two.
I think as the Palestinian struggle picks up so will the womens...
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